What OBJ told me about Jonathan –Alamieyeseigha
In this interview, Chief Alamieyeseigha, who shares his thrilling experience in the murky waters of the nation’s politics, also asserts that nobody can stop the re-election bid of Governor Seriake Dickson on December 5. Excerpts:
You were at the stadium where Governor Dickson declared for a second term and former President Goodluck Jonathan openly endorsed him among other candidates vying for the same seat. Do you think Jonathan was right?
At certain stage in life, if you have leadership qualities, your followers should be able to predict you and know where you stand. In politics, there is no neutrality. There is no need romancing with your subjects, quarrelling with one another, wasting precious time and resources when you can come out straight as Jonathan did. This would have been done long ago so that people would not waste time and resources by going to pick forms.
Jonathan has been here for six and half years as deputy governor, governor for one and half years before he went to the federal level. So, this is a familiar terrain. All of us know the players by their first name and without going to the field, you will know who will win election and who will not win election. So, I am glad that at last, he came out openly. It is possible he would have been doing that privately but recently and on the declaration day, he impressed me because he came out openly in support of Governor Dickson. For so many reasons, which we know as politicians in the state, having lost at the centre, you cannot protect your house for people to invade your privacy; it is not done.
But with the calibre of people who have indicated interest in the seat from the main opposition party, the All Progressives Congress (APC), are you not afraid that winning the election may be difficult for Dickson?
Yes, some people are using the media to promote themselves as leaders but I know that most of them that have picked forms cannot win their booths without help.
We are also aware that some of them were given positions of responsibility in the past and we know what they did with them; we know their pedigree because by their fruits you know them. If they have made so much money and they want to use the opportunity of the election to spread them, or bring out some money for the electorate, so be it but I can assure you that it is not to win any election. These are people were in the PDP and they did not take part in the last presidential election.
They worked for the PDP against the APC. In the National Assembly elections, they were in PDP and in the state Houses of Assembly, they were also in the PDP. But in the case of the governorship, they want to be governor. So far, about 18 of them have collected forms in the APC and only one of them will become a candidate and these names, some of them are not even known by the APC at the national level. Of course, they know they would fail but the hope is that the APC government at the centre would give them appointments.
It is a joke because the party has not been able to satisfy the original APC members not to talk of those opportunists, greedy and ambitious human beings. I do not think they have the interests of the Ijaw nation and Bayelsans at heart. We cannot be deceived because we know them.
What is your take on the fears in many quarters that with the federal might, the APC could really upstage the PDP in the coming election?
Nigerians are underestimating President Muhammadu Buhari. We have people today that do not belong to any political party. President Buhari used the platform of the APC to win the presidential election but as soon as he was sworn in, he has become the president of everybody. He cannot use the national army, police to rig election in favour of his party. The Buhari I know has told you that he is for everybody and for nobody. That is typical of Buhari.
Buhari was former Head of State and I was in the military. The closest I have come across to him was when he was commanding 4th brigade in Lagos. I know him at that level and we meet in social gatherings.
You referred to his statement where he said he belonged to everybody and to nobody but his body language so far does not suggest so. For instance, after his latest appointments, some refer to him as the president of Northern Nigeria? What is your reaction to that?
According to former Governor of Anambra State, Chukwuemeka Ezeife, President Buhari is the president of the North. Some have argued that there are still a lot of appointments to be made. I may not be morally right to comment on this because my brother just left office as president. People may ask what did your brother do? During President Jonathan’s administration, all the appointments, all the security architecture and all the revenue generating sectors and almost everything went to the North West. A deity asked for blood and you give him oil, it is blood he wants and not oil. So, my brother was giving them oil but the North was interested in taking power. Despite what he was doing for them, their interest was power and they got it.
But some say, like Balarabe Musa observed recently that Jonathan was not prepared for leadership and that accounted for the loss of power by the South. You picked Jonathan once as your deputy and having worked with him, do you think their assessment is right?
It is not right because the Jonathan I know is more experienced than any president that has ruled this country in the past. Somebody that has been in office for 16 years, which former president in this country has been in power for 16 years? He was in office as deputy governor and was overseeing administration of local government and was very conversant with the administration of local governments at that level. He was also performing the role of a deputy governor. He became a governor and is also familiar with governance at that level. He became a vice president for four years and became acting president and a president. Which Nigerian has that pedigree? None. So, Balarabe Musa goofed. I am not aware of any special school that people go to become president. Academically, he is more qualified than any of them, and in our local environment at the University of Port Harcourt, he has street knowledge because he is locally bred. Not everybody will like his style but I can tell you that if you sit down and catalogue what he has done for this country, no other president has done that. But it is his lifestyle; he is a very quiet man, unassuming but with very high intellectual content. If Goodluck believes in something, the house can collapse but he will do what he believes in. He has a very strong character. It depends on who is looking at him from which angle. From the beginning, people’s mindset was fixed for him to fail and to manage that perception was another problem. But he did well. All these things that the APC is claiming to have done in 100 days are just claims; you cannot fix the refinery in three months. Somebody must have done very serious work before. To do turnaround maintenance takes 18 months and not three months.
Within the period Jonathan worked under you, did you at any point imagine that he would get to this point politically? What were those leadership qualities you identified in him?
Leadership comes from above. No matter how you try, if God almighty did not destine you to lead, you will not be a leader. For Goodluck, I knew that Jonathan was going to be vice president of Nigeria as far back as August 25, 2005. Former President Olusegun Obasanjo told me that since Atiku and I wanted to take his job, that it would be over his dead body and that unless he died, Atiku cannot be president of Nigeria. He said that since Atiku had picked me as his running mate, he will make sure that he dealt and disgraced us. He said that he was going to use my deputy to rubbish me before everybody. So, I knew.
But what really attracted you to Jonathan before you picked him as your deputy over other politicians in the state?
One is that I came from Southern Ijaw Local Government, the largest in the state and maybe, in the whole country. My political calculation was that I needed somebody from Ogbia axis, that is East. Ogbia and Nembe have a very close size. So, I needed Ogbia votes to complement that of Southern Ijaw. Number two, I wanted a deputy governor that had very high intelligence quotient and stable character. I needed an establishment person and somebody who was not too ambitious, that if I was out, he could stand in for me and could run the state. I needed somebody that if I travelled outside the state, I could sleep well. It was a combination of these factors that made me to choose Jonathan as my deputy then. I set out an objective criterion on the qualities I needed and when the late Chief judge of Bayelsa State recommended him (I did not know him before), I entered my car and drove to his residence. I asked him to resign and come and be my running mate. I was already a candidate. He was then in OMPADEC quarters.
Some argue that the role the power elite played and the manner Jonathan was removed from office would continue to affect the issue of national cohesion and unity. Do you agree and what do you see in the future of Nigeria?
I have very radical views and I do not want to share it now. We are watching out what will play out at the national level. Will Nigeria or the ruling party still take us as part of Nigeria? Of course, they know that we are still feeding this nation. So, I think that they are conscious of that and they should also know that even the British could not conquer the Ijaw people. So, we have the capacity to defend what belongs to us. So far, so good, the appointments that they have made, none has come to Bayelsa. The Special Adviser to the President on the Amnesty Programme, Boroh, is just coordinating the programme and I do not consider that as an appointment. Is that what we deserve? The amnesty programme, we do not know whether it will end in December. We are watching.
The present administration has just completed 100 days in office, what are your reflections?
I have been a governor before and this question keeps coming. One hundred days in the life of a government with a mandate of four years is insignificant. There is always a learning period. You may say he was a military Head of State before but it is different. Military dictatorship where there is nothing like the National Assembly; you give orders and nobody will question your orders is different from a civilian government where you have to lobby. So, I do not want to use 100 days to assess a sitting president. But so far, so good! What is going for Buhari is the perception of Nigeria.
The integrity and what he came with to government is what is helping him. If you go to the North and you mention Buhari’s name, Sai Buhari, they come like bees. Some of them do not even know who he is. You can spend money and Buhari will not spend and people will trek 15 kilometres to support him. That is the mystery he has built for himself over the years because people see him as incorruptible and straight. With this change mantra that they floated and corruption as the vessel, people seem to believe what he is doing. And once they say you are corrupt, they first finish you on the pages of newspapers before they start looking for evidence. It is a terrible country that we are in.
Have you forgiven Obasanjo?
Not only Obasanjo but everybody also. This is because everything that happened, who did what, I know? I cannot be living in the past because it does not help. It hurts quite well but again if it was not permitted by God, it would not have happened. And for me to be alive, I thank God. Sometimes, when I reflect where I am coming from, I even at times question myself why I am still alive, having passed through what I have passed through. It reminds me of Psalm 23, somebody passing through the valley of the shadow of death. I passed through it repeatedly. For me to be alive, I do not need to have anything in mind.
Have you interacted with Obasanjo since that saga and what was the closest you have been with him since then?
I have been at a very close quarter with Obasanjo twice. One at Katsina. I did not even know that he was in the VIP lounge. I think it was during the late Yar’Adua’s daughter’s marriage to Yuguda. I wanted to use the rest room and here was Obasanjo directly sitting inside. I was even scared because he almost passed out.
I held his hand and he said, ‘DSP, what have I done that deserved you shaking me?’ There were other people, Kenny Martins and one other of his political friends. I said I was shaking him for two reasons. One was because of the Almighty God that created us. Number two is that tradition demands that we should welcome our visitors. Then Kenny got up and said, ‘great leader, great leader’ and he came to hug me. The second encounter was when I was going to Dubai and if Obasanjo had known that I was in that aircraft, he would not have entered but I was already seated. We were very few in the aircraft. Because of fear, Obasanjo saw me and hysterically called me Fayose and I told him that I was not Fayose.
I said former president, Olusegun, Matheew Kikiola Aremu Obasanjo, you are a devil incarnate. I said when we were small, our lesson teachers always talked about this devil and that devil but I never knew that the devil was a human being. I told him that ‘you are a direct descendants of the devil.’ I told him that ‘if you talk, I will throw you out of this aircraft.’
I know of a truth that he did not sleep throughout the flight. The only thing he said was ‘DSP, is it only you that entered prison? I too entered prison.’ He said you entered prison and I entered prison. So, I asked him where he was going and he said he was going to Saudi Arabia. I said ‘Saudi Arabia? Former President Obasanjo, is there is no God in Nigeria again that you are going to meet Muhammed? You are not telling me the truth, you are going to look for that money you kept in Saudi Arabia.’ The Obasanjo I know was going to check his account in Saudi Arabia. You are not going to worship or do any other thing. He kept quiet and I left. But I have forgiven him and I can even go to Otta. He is an elder. One thing I know of Obasanjo is that you can say anything against him but he is a leader.
If he says he is going to do this, he will do it. You can call Obasanjo any time of the day or night and he will pick the phone himself. He will be ready to sit down with you to solve any problem even though he will not allow you to talk. He has invited you to seek your opinion on how to solve the problem but he would not allow you to talk and at the end of the day, you begin to wonder why did this man call me when he had the solution. That is the type of character that he is. But from my encounter with him, if we start it now, this interview will not end. If that scenario plays out today, I will better handle it than that time. I will document it because I have his dossier and I gave it to him. It is from 1966, the first military coup in this country. I know him. For me to say he is devil incarnate, he is.
Despite your travails in politics, you have remained popular with your people. What is the secret?
A leader basically must have three qualities. It is either you are feared, respected or loved by your people. If you do not have any of these three qualities, you cannot be a leader. And to be loved by your people, it is not by force but your relationship with your people. The love of my people for me did not start when I became governor.
I have held several positions in this country. I was in the military for 19 years. I was sole administrator in Port Harcourt. I was chairman, Board of Directors of Port Harcourt Flower Mills. I was military assistant to the governor of Rivers State, Ernest Adeleye. I was plant services manager of NAFCON. I was Special Adviser to Chukwumerije when he was a minister. I was administrative manager of an international company. I was also in another international company. So, all those offices I held, I used it very positively for my people and when I had the opportunity. With the resources available, I helped them as a governor.
There is no family in Bayelsa State that I have not touched, directly or indirectly. Sometimes, I drive myself because the people protect me better.
SUN NEWS
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